Gallaudet Update

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From WAMU 88.85 at American university in Washington, welcome to the Kojo Nmamdi Show: It erupted seemingly out of nowhere, at least to people on the outside. What started as a leadership dispute at Gaullaudet University quickly morphed into something much bigger. Last year's protests are over, but the fault lines remain as the university faces questions about academics and governance and how decisions are made. and about Gaullaudet's identity which has always been impossible to separate from the identity of the deaf community at large. The university is celebrating its 150th anniversary this month and it has a new president, working to mend relations with students, faculty and alumni for the past two month. He joins us. Also joining us is Mary Dunn, because president Davila will be speaking to us in ASL and Mary Dunn will be doing the interpreting. Thank you very much for being here.

Thank you very much.

Kojo: As an outsider, what did you see before the protests and what do you see now as an insider?

I'm an alumnus of the university, graduated from Gaullaudet back in the day and I've maintained my close relationship with the university throughout my years and at the time this happened, I had just moved back to the Washington, D.C. area when this erupted and I thought it might be temporary. I guess at that time I didn't know so much about what was happening internally because I had just stepped out of my career before that. Later, you know, now I've become president and I'm in the middle of this and I guess I see that the issues here are much, much deeper than I saw as an outsider and now I have a better understanding of what needs to be done.

Kojo: We are speaking with the president of Gaullaudet University, Robert Davila, inviting you to join the conversation. You can send email to Kojo at wamu.org. You mentioned that your roots at Gaullaudet go very deep. You graduated from the school in 1953 and taught there. Could you tell us about your own personal experience?

Sure. After I received by Ph.D. at Syracuse university, I was associate professor in the department of education at Gaullaudet and worked there for two years as an instructor and later had the opportunity to move into school administration and director of Kendall school, Washington, D.C.'s only elementary school for the deaf. So I kept teaching at the same time I was the administrator and then a few years later, I was promoted to the vice president for precollege programs and I maintained that position for 11 years. And that was '89 and that was the first protest and I went into government service for a period of time and I didn't return until this January.

Kojo: I remember the protests in 1989 very well. How have things changed between then and now?

Robert: Many things have changed in the university in terms of education for the deaf has expanded greatly and because of that moment, many, many young people out there who are deaf went into mainstream programs and it also, it's created more opportunities that have developed over the last several years, you know, I remember, comparatively to when I was a student, opportunities opened up a myriad of things, varieties of studies and different careers and those things that were opened were different than in the past, a much more limited basis for deaf people and I think it's so much better for deaf people now than it ever has been.

Kojo: You can call us, if you'd like to speak with the president of Gaullaudet University. You mentioned that you were on the outside, when the latest protests occurred. What is your own view of how the issues should now be resolved?

Robert: So you mean the view of how it should have been resolved in the past or are you referring to the situation at hand now?

Kojo: Dealing with the situation at hand now.

Robert: Oh, okay. That is truly my agenda for the.. My appointment is for up to two years and during those two years I've established a true agenda of five goals. One, for example, will be to increase the respect and value for diversity of both people and ideas on campus, because we need to heal those divisions that happen among individuals and different constituencies on campus. And, to me, I truly value diversity and support diversity and diverse points of view and ideologies and points of view and we need to make that a priority. Secondly, I think we need to promote a shared understanding of the mission of the university. So I'm not sure everyone is clear about what the mission is or what it should be so I'm interested in opening a dialogue about that and also with the board's discussion in mind. Thirdly, we need to be concerned with the review of the academic board. Also, developing culture of excellence. The fourth thing, we need to improve our recruiting, also enrollment and also retention of students, because that would lead to large numbers who graduate and we're working on that right now. And finally, we also need to respond to other observations that we need to expand the concept of shared governance on our campus and that would give a variety of members within the campus community a chance to be heard. And I'll be working very, very closely on these objectives during the next several years. I don't believe I can finish everything, but I definitely want to get a start on these five goals and I want to take them as far as I can during my time here at Gaullaudet.

Kojo: Indeed, the Middle States Association accreditation report you referred to criticized the academic environment including low passing rates, and questions about academic rigor. Do you see those as issues that have to be addressed immediately?

Robert: Oh, yes, definitely. We already have groups that are currently working and developing action plans to focus on these issues. And also we have revised our current reports that will be given over to MSA to include a lot more important data, basic database information that's necessary to show to them, the action steps we're taking are valid and we're covering all of the areas we need to. So we currently are continuing the communication with MSA and we really do, you know, they're checking our progress and what we're doing and we're trying to keep up with our reports and I think we're making excellent progress with that communication. We're working on many different things and we want to continue that.

Kojo: We got an email from Joaquin from Frederick, Maryland who says he read the report about Gaullaudet in danger of losing accreditidation. He was shocked to read the admissions requirement for verbal. Why would I send my deaf son to Gaullaudet? I understand you sign there, but they sign everywhere nowadays. My son is smart and will achieve probably 600 in his SAT's. Why would he want to go to school with someone who scores 300? No wonder you're losing accreditation. How will you address this?

Robert: I haven't addressed this yet, but I will be. I've been there two month and I'm in the process of getting familiar with the programs we have and the board of trustees and expectations. I've been gone almost 20 years from that campus so for me right now it's a process of being reacquainted. I've been an educator for a long, long period of time and I expect high standards and I would like them as rigorous as possible but also fair for people. That needs to be looked into so we can move possible. At this point I don't have the information I should have. That 320 score, I wasn't familiar with that.

Kojo: The Middle States Association has set a target of March 1 to develop a plan. Are you on target and what will that plan look like?

Robert: First of all, they've extended us the deadline for submission of that paperwork until April 16 and the reason for that is because they're generally satisfied with the quality of our reports and the data we've been giving them so they want to give us extra time to make sure they're complete so I think that's a positive sign from them and I'm very fine with that.

Kojo: We're talking with the president of Gaullaudet University, Robert Davila, and taking your phone calls at 800-433-8850. You can send email to Kojo at wamu.org. We'll take a short break. If you've called already, stay on the line. If not, shoot us an email.

Kojo: Taking your calls at 800-433-8850. You can send kojo@wemu.org at kojo@wemu.org. Assisting us is Mary Dunn, she interprets for the president and when the president speaks in ASL, the voice you will hear is that of Bruce Riley. We got an kojo@wamu.org from candy in Washington who says, I would like to give you a chance to clarify the Gaullaudet graduation rate. You often report the rate is at 42%, but in truth it is lower. The national center for education statistics reports that only 6% of Gaullaudet students graduate in four years and only 28% graduate in six years. That's a devastating statistic. Why do you keep reporting a percentage that is higher than the real one? The national center for education statistics is public information. Is it so that you will continue to be funded?

Robert: Well, let me tell you that I used to be director of the second largest supported federal program for deaf people at Rochester institute of technology in Rochester, New York and both there and here we're looking at seven-year cohorts because deaf people require a little more time because of language issues. So we're looking at a seven-year period to calculate graduation rates. I think what you're using is a four-year vehicle. Maybe the numbers would be different if you look at a seven-year period. Our graduates do get a quality education and they do get the knowledge and skills necessary for them to carry them into the marketplace and those things become careers and they become productive, satisfying citizens, wonderful people. And we help them become independent and self supporting. So we do use a different way to calculate this. So we calculate the graduation differently for grad deaf individuals, it's seven years.

Kojo: I said to our listeners that realtime captioning of this conversation is available at wamu.org, made possible by Speche communications, that's speche.com, in association with captionsunlimited.com. Maybe one of the things you can help our listeners understand, is why it is that 41% of Gallaudet students mede remedial English and 86% need remedial math. That's what we were told by your office of enrollment services.

Robert: Well, you've got to remember that all of us are in the business of trying to help that deaf person who might have difficulty getting through a regular education program and we're trying to help them succeed so sometimes that requires remedial help so we do give that young person as much help as necessary so he or she can be prepared to enter regular academic studies at the college level so that's another reason it takes longer for a deaf person but hopefully the investment pays off because people do eventually graduate, many of them do, and they go on to successful careers and have independent lives. And, again, that takes them off the public Dole because they're able to self-sustain and I think that is a wonderful achievement. I graduated from the program at Gallaudet. I have a doctor of philosophy degree from Syracuse university and I could not have done that without the good educational base I received at Gallaudet.

Kojo: You became deaf at the age of 8. Tell us how you became involved with Gallaudet. I read an interview where you explained growing up learning Spanish by hearing but not English. But not other languages.

Robert: That's correct. I was born into a large Hispanic family who spoke Spanish. My parents were immigrants from Mexico. And they were migrant workers. There were eight children within the family and that's the kind of family that I came into. And at that time we spoke only Spanish and English was my foreign language, but after becoming deaf, my mother found a social worker who referred her to the school for the deaf that was located in the northern part of California. At that time, I was sent away to school and it was probably the best thing that could have ever happened to me because I had access to real education through both elementary and secondary school there and I came to Gallaudet as a student and after that, I went on as a student the rest of my life so I was very fortunate. And I was fortunate to be able to have that type of opportunity. Also to learn, I learned sign language almost immediately after I arrived at the school for the deaf. And I was using Spanish spoken language and some ASL so I had to learn how to think in English and I kept on thinking more and more in English until Spanish became a second language for me. As an adult, I tried to relearn Spanish as an adult and that's what I've done.

Kojo: We're talking with the president of Gallaudet university, Robert Davila, and taking your calls at 800-433-8850. Joining us now by telephone is Bruce white, professor of English at Gallaudet university who spearheaded the protests last fall. Thank you very much for joining us.

Bruce: Thank you for having me.

Kojo: Could you tell us a little bit about what you have seen in terms of progress since president Davila has come on board?

Bruce: I'm happy to. I've been here since the late '70's when the fourth president of Gallaudet was here and now I'm here for the ninth president and I'm sure Dr. Davila will go down in the history books as one of the best we've had. He's accomplishing so much in the last two months that we're all impressed, looking forward to figuring out how we can be the best competitive university we can be to meet the needs of our deaf students.

Kojo: One of the things that the middle states association of colleges and schools spoke about was the need for shared governance between faculty, students and campus leadership. I'd like to ask you you, first, professor white, what is your vision of that and I'll ask the same question to president Davila.

Bruce: The first is one of respect. Dr. Davila gives a lot of respect to the faculty and we share that respect for him, as well, and that is the groundwork for building a good relationship. We realize that we need to be more competitive and we need to define our mission more carefully and make it more realistic. We're ready to buckle down and do what we need to do to be the best we can be.

Kojo: I suspect that one of the differences between the time you graduated in 1953 and today is that then there was no call for shared governance between faculty, students and campus leadership and you mentioned that earlier as one of the challenges you face. How do you see that process evolving?

Robert: I am fully committed to full faculty governance system and also, you know, I've seen that side of shared governance at other universities so I want us to get involved and share in decision-making and I'd like to remain open and transparent with all of my dealings with the community I'm leading. For example, right now, the process of looking for a new provote. I want no involvement in that process. I-give that responsibility to the faculty senate because I want them the oversight and I want to make the final decision but I want them to give me the list of the candidates they could live with. And I think that's an example of how I want to show them respect and get them involved in helping me make the best decisions possible for our university.

Kojo: Professor White, we know that the president of the university has a video blog announcement to students. What do you think about it?

Bruce: I have seen them and I think they're wonderful. They show such a respect for ASL, for communication access for everybody. He's made himself for accessible to students, faculty and staff. He has regular town-hall meetings. He goes to the snack bar and meets students there. He's as open as anybody can be.

Kojo: President Davila, what inspired you to start that video blog. It's a weekly blog. I saw it myself this morning.

Robert: My Ph.D. is in educational Technologies from Syracuse and I was very early on educational technologists in the country and I was involved in them heavily and I've always been on the watch to come up with a variety of ideas of how technology can allow deaf people to increase their access to communication, to their interaction with others and I can't think of a better, better vehicle than video. Especially that can be communicated over a distance and controlled to the receiver and I think it's a perfect, perfect thing for deaf people to use and I can't tell you how inspiring that is and I used to dream about this possibility when I was a kid. And now that technology, the reality is here.

Kojo: Professor White, what do you feel is the biggest challenge facing Gallaudet in terms of academics?

Bruce: I think one of the challenges and one of the beauties of this campus is having such a diverse body of students. We do need remedial work as every college does. We also have students here who would thrive at any other university in the country or in the world and the trick for us is to figure out how to challenge all of those students as much as we can and accomplish whatever we can to make sure they have the qualifications and credentials and training to succeed in the world. That is a big challenge and we're ready to face that.

Kojo: Professor White, thank you very much for joining us. He was having his answers interpreted by Kathie wood. Thank you both for joining us. And you can join this conversation at 800-433-8850. Let's go to Kathy in bellsville, Maryland.

Caller: My question is to Dr. Devillea. Were you part of the protest? I understand you wrote a letter to the board telling them to get rid of the former president, designated president Jane Ferndandes, so were you, yourself, part of the protest?

Robert: I'd like to correct you if you don't mind. I did not write a letter with is that such suggestion. I was not involved in the protest. I just moved to the Washington, D.C. area at that time.

Caller: But there's a letter on a website for the protest that you wrote. So what are you saying?

Robert: Let me get to that here. Let me finish that thought first as I answer your question. Many people around the country became very, very alarmed and almost scared that we might lose our university, especially if that protest was not resolved. So there was a united effort at the time to identify respected leaders within the deaf community to then write letters to the board of trustees and I was besieged by many, many people to write a letter and I did write a letter, but it was well-worded, if I don't mind saying that. It did not suggest the removal of anyone but I did appeal to the board's sensibility and I did appeal to Dr. Ferndandes to consider her possible resignation and to save the university, for that sake.

Caller: Since you started working at university, I understand that you've hired several protesters to work in your office so it seems as though you may have been part of the protest.

Robert: To tell you the truth, I don't know who was a protestor and I don't want to know.

Caller: Oh, please! Everyone knows.

Robert: I'm sorry to tell you, but I don't. I do not know that.

Kojo: Kathy, thank you very much for your call. Kathy sounds quite cynical, or skeptical, I should say. We do have another letter from a skeptical individual, from shatanya. She says there were a group of students of color who plan to continue protesting until their concerns are heard and addressed. What are you doing to address the concerns of these students of color?

Robert: I'm really sorry to hear that, first and foremost. I am fully committed to diversity. I'm a person of color myself. And, you know, I have had a record in every place I've ever worked of working hard towards diversity so I will continue to ensure that a diverse environment happens. Now, I do have plans and I do intend to be the university's leading person to regulate diversity and I want to use the authority of my office and my position to assure that we do keep open and keep diverse and keep our community diverse and have us all work together. I also have plans to develop a series of seminars for students and the purpose of those seminars would be an open dialogue about issues related to racism in relation to autism, about oppression, about discrimination. So we need to give people that kind of exposure to those issues that affect everyone's lives and talk about how to deal with them. I plan to continue seeking out good, highly qualified minority professionals and I want to bring them to Gallaudet and that's one of the things I would like to do before I finish my service here. I am fully committed and I would like to persevere in this dialogue with a variety of groups and I've had meetings with student leadership and plan to continue with that and it's the only way we can have a clear understanding and help each other out. People tend to use blogs often times and the internet for the purpose of discussing issues, but really, you know, that doesn't allow that face-to-face dialogue to happen and it doesn't allow you to set up a unified effort so I'm focusing on these campus issues and I'd like to be there with them to have that discussion with each other and support each other and find common ground and common solutions. That's what I'm trying to do.

Kojo: Could you explain for our listeners what audism is?

Robert: This is discrimination against people who are deaf. It's where people inadvertently put hearing status as more important. And that then discriminates against deaf people in their deafness.

Kojo: We got an e-mail from Ellen in D.C. who writes, what do you think is the number one misconception of deaf people in society?

Robert: I think that most people in society feel a little uncomfortable because they're trying to understand how they can interact with a person who is deaf so I guess maybe they're afraid, they don't know how to make the first move. And I think once the ice is broken, then interaction and a wonderful relationship will emerge with hearing and deaf people. So we have to teach the public and young deaf people that they can take the initiative and make those interactive contacts. And once people realize that they can communicate with you and interaction can start and once the dialogue starts, it goes from there. Not communicating causes easy misunderstandings. Or people think, oh, they're signing, I can't communicate with them but if they are signing, you can still communicate.

Kojo: Robert Davila joins us in the studio. You can call 800-433-8850 or shoot an e-mail to kojo@wamu.org

Kojo: We're talking with the president of Gallaudet University, Robert Davila and joining us to interpret American sign language, Mary Dunn and also with us is Bruce Riley. Realtime captioning is available on speche.com to allow -- is available on wamu.org, made available by speche.com in association with Captions Unlimited. Or you can call us at 800-433-8850. Speaking of sign language, this we got from Nick in falls church, Virginia. "is there a universal sign language or does ASL differ markedly from French or other sign languages?

Robert: That's a good question. The actual answer is that sign language throughout the world are unique to their own indigenous country so we do not have a singular universal signing throughout the world.

Kojo: I want to refer back to the call that was made by Kathy earlier because a lot of people who opposed the protest focus on this issue that comes in the form of an e-mail from Barbara in Reston. It says, is the new president going to address the issue of bigotry, saying someone is not deaf enough to be considered part of the deaf community. And it would appear that it was over the use of cochlear implants, that some protestors felt that the use of cochlear implants was undermining the Deaf community. How do you feel on this issue?

Robert: I support every individual. Whatever is decided for him or herself and I want them to have them respect me about my decisions about my life so I have no problem if member makes a decision about a cochlear implant or other educational methodology. We talked about deaf people, can I communicate with them, can they communicate with me, that's what's important. If they use sign language, that's great. So I accept every type of deaf person out there.

Kojo: Barbara's specific question, saying someone is not deaf enough to be considered a part of the Deaf community. Are there people who are not deaf enough to be considered part of the Deaf community?

Robert: I think in any social or societal group, regardless what group it is, you'll find people with a variety of different points of view. There's always people at both ends of the extreme in the spectrum so that does not surprise me. But I don't think it's a central concept that guides our points of view about people who are hard of hearing or deaf or any other growp of people.

Kojo: I found myself in the middle of a conversation about where Barak Obama was black enough, so there are these points of views. A recent panel report mostly cleared guards of wrongdoing during the protests but highlighted a problem that people protecting the university sometimes cannot communicate effectively with students. Is there anything you can do about that?

Robert: We're trying to do something at this time. And that is that people's outside reports of view, the outside report that was made about the interaction, where they said that the students were shoved and hit by security, based on the report there's no evidence that happened. But, again, I was not there. Now, I plan to, as far as our university, we are interested in helping our security officers learn sign language. We are working on that already and recently we had a task force meeting to talk about ways in which we can improve the security's signing ability and help them develop better communication skills and help them learn to deal with group situations. So we are working on that right now.

Kojo: This came from a deaf Gallaudet person who asked not to be identified but said, she thinks the president is doing a good job with weekly reports and open mind forum, continuing open conversation, but he seems to be sweeping problems with security under the rug. Last fall two incidents were ignored, another ignored recently. Another confrontation between student and security guard, large misunderstanding, another student separated them. Are you familiar with those events, president Davila?

Robert: Not all of those events, really. I'm not familiar with all of them. But I take this very seriously. Safety and the security of our students is a priority. There's nothing more important than that and I intend to continue monitoring this as a watch dog of everything that's going on campus to make sure that the students are comfortable, safe and secure and it's a good place for everybody and security is number one in my book and I'll work with anyone I can who has ideas to improve that environment. We've already started working on this and we have a task force of representatives and we had that meeting recently to talk about which way we can go and how to improve things for the students and make things better so that's a beginning.

Kojo: Here's Susan in leesburg, Virginia. Go ahead, please.

Thank you. I would like to ask Dr. Devilla, does he feel there's a potential if too much leniency is allowed academmically, it might detract from obtaining higher academic, higher grGPA students, and give a second-rate level of education. I'm curious what the average GPA, for example. It's a similar argument to when the greater southeast hospital and people's concerns that if Howard lost its accreditation as a medical school and only certain doctors and nurses were attracted to work at southeast, was it a quality medical facility for southeast residents. It's a similar question, really.

Robert: Gallaudet University has served deaf people for almost 150 years. And I would say that during those years many thousands of our graduates have gone out there into the world and are very successful and have gone far beyond anyone's imagination or expectation and this will continue. Gallaudet serves students very, very well. And probably, it's one of the better places for deaf people and I think we have an excellent reputation. We are respected for helping deaf people find themselves and learn and be able to cope with the world around them and plan for successful careers. So I went through that experience myself as a student, when I was a student. At that time it was a very small college and the same concepts apply today. We have similar students. And I have full faith in our university to do what's best for those kids. So we need to look constantly how we can improve our programs, improve the rigor, better serve students. We need to give, have a wide variety of experiences to be given to students so they can carry those experiences with them and then they'll be prepared in the real world, prepared for independence so we are working, trying to constantly plan and make students become self-sufficient, good self-sufficient citizens of the community and I think we're right on track with that. So we are making corrections to that. The protest brought to light a lot of things. We are picking up again and we will continue.

Kojo: We got an email from Viera who couldn't stay on the phone line. She's concerned about a sense of entitlement among Gallaudet students. She doesn't believe they're respectful and wonders if Gallaudet teaches the responsibility of citizenship. She knows Gallaudet students have been caught partying, desecrating gravestones, flouting the law, shutting down the campus last year and she thinks Gallaudet should be teaching students ethical behavior and how to be responsible members of society. I'd like to add that Gallaudet is a town-and-gown issue that is a problem at several universities in the Washington area.

Robert: Obviously, yes. It's important for us to continue teaching young people ethical behavior. It's part of what I said previously. We really are preparing young people for independent living in the greater community. So we do do that. And I want to hesitate to generalize here. We have 2,000 students on our campus, including the graduate school programs. And these young people, you're picking out a select few. We're not unlike many other colleges and universities. We have problems that come up to similar hearing schools. And media sometimes makes generalizations, focusing on one or several students that did something but I ask you to withhold judgment and have trust in our university. Why would I have come out of retirement if I didn't think things here were important to be addressed or if I didn't think it was doable to make a correction.

Kojo: Gallaudet is not only a university for college-age students, it's a laboratory for best practice in elementary and high school education. How strong is your emphasis on that?

Robert: I missed that question.

Kojo: Isn't Gallaudet also a laboratory for best practices for elementary and high school education for deaf and hearing impaired?

Robert: Absolutely. We have three priorities for that specific program. First is transition from high school to college. Many young people arrive at college unprepared for the requirements to function independently as a student so we would like to help a variety of programs throughout the country develop and implement transition programs to help students better prepare for college. The second one is parent education and we want to work with families and parents to then help them better understand how they can be supportive of their sons or daughters who are deaf and third, we want to disseminate curriculum and materials to other programs out there, share our best practices and also best knowledge with other schools and programs out there and also by giving workshops.

Kojo: We're just about out of time. Thank you very much for joining us.

Robert: Thank you very much. Time has gone quickly.

Kojo: Robert Davila is president of Gallaudet University. Our thanks